Upbeat: An Interview with Rajesh Setty

A few years ago, I accidentally ran into Rajesh Setty’s blog, from the Cool Friends section of TomPeters.com and since then it is in my personal Top 10 blogs that I follow on a regular basis. The big concept that I got benefited from his work is on Personal Branding for Technology Professionals (get your copy of the free ebook here). At about the same time, Rajesh published his beautiful book Beyond Code: Learn to Distinguish Yourself in 9 Simple Steps. I’ve lost count of the number of copies of this book, that I gifted to people around me. Its amazing the way Rajesh produces blog posts that are of high value, week by week and now for several years. If you have still not subscribed to his blog, do it NOW and you’d be happy that you did.

Rajesh has published a new book Upbeat: Cultivating the Right Attitude to Thrive in Tough Times. In this book he offers simple yet profound nuggets to help one thrive during the challenging times that we all are subjected to right now. The book is divided into 5 segments “The Trap”, “The Discipline”, “The Network”, “The Strategy” and “The Action”. What more, it also has a D-I-Y section that makes it easier for the reader to implement the ideas.

For quite some time, I have been thinking about interviewing eminent people that are making an “impact” on the society. I’m glad to start this series with an interview of Rajesh Setty. This interview is a part of the second wave (first wave here) of the blog tour of Rajesh’s new book Upbeat.

Here we go:

Dear Rajesh, first of all, greetings from Bangalore and many thanks for your time. I’m always fascinated by the valuable, thought provoking posts that keeps flowing from you so effortlessly. How do you do this and What is the prime motivation behind this?

RamP, that is very kind of you. Thanks.

You have two questions here:

1. How do I do what I do?

2. What is my motivation to do this?

First I want to say that I am more of a student than a teacher. I have great teachers and mentors and I have had them by my side for over two decades.

On your first question there, the first thought that comes to my mind is that I have LOT of help. By GOD’s grace, I have more help than I can use. If I am slipping behind on something it’s mostly because of me and not because I don’t have the help. With good help, you have more capacity to do fun and interesting things.

The second thought I have on that is that by nature I think “very long term.” I don’t start any project until I am convinced the five years from now, I will still have fun continuing to do that project. Since there is no short-term thinking I have all the time to slowly build on whatever I have started.

On your second question, my motivation is to continue to contribute and build my own capacity to contribute more. The more I give, the more I learn to give more. It is a great joy when I know that I have touched, moved and/or inspired someone somewhere in the world.

Out of several concepts I have learnt from following your posts, the one that has influenced me the most is the concept of “gradually, but suddenly”. Can you please briefly explain this for my readers and are there any methods by which one can start observing that they are falling into this trap?

I wrote an article for TomPeters.com on this topic. Here is an excerpt of the article:

In the book The Sun Also Rises, Hemingway paints a scenario where one of the key characters, Mike Campbell, is asked, "How did you go bankrupt?" His response is "Gradually ... then suddenly." This is so very applicable to a recession scenario. Actually, it is applicable to all our lives—you don't fail suddenly; you fail gradually through a series of small failures everyday. The day you fail is just a culmination of all the small failures you have had.

Yes, you can get away with "no progress during a recession" by blaming the recession, but really, if things are not going well, you should blame yourself for the way you behaved leading up to the recession.

"Gradually ... then suddenly" is the phenomenon that will explain a lot of mess we are in today. We are trying to find instant solutions to problems that we have created over years.

And the link to the article in its entirety:
TomPeters.com: Gradually… then suddenly

You talk about “setting higher standards”. However, this needs a realistic assessment of oneself. I have encountered two sets of people – the first set hype-up their moderate achievements and actually believe that they have set high standards for themselves and the other set would have set impossibly higher goals/standards and driving everyone crazy around them. How do you think one can go about accurately seeing the current reality?

Jeffrey Pfeffer (Stanford University, Author of “Knowing Doing Gap”) says – “You have to be reasonably competent to find out your level of incompetence on a topic.”

I like the statement because it applies to all of us in many different ways almost daily. We don’t know what we don’t know – so we have an “awareness problem” on most topics. We won’t know that we don’t know something until someone brings that into our awareness. So unless you are “open” to learning from MANY sources, chances are that you are blindsided.

So, that’s the first step right there – to be aware of what is really in play.

Once you know that, the next step is to make an honest assessment of market standards. What is an acceptable level of competence, what are considered “high standards” in the marketplace etc.

Next, you can make a determination of “delta” between the currently accepted “high standards” in the marketplace and your own standards on that topic.

Lastly, you set the bar higher than the currently accepted “high standards” and display “proof” to show that you are not just saying but you are actually living it.

One way to check whether you have set “higher standards” is to see what “premium” are you getting for what you are producing. That is not an absolute measure but it can give you reasonable feedback on where you stand.

Moving on to the next topic of “networking” - I have seen examples where people need help, and there are people willing to give help, but one hesitates to seek help. This is clearly not the case of being “extra baggage” or not being “grateful” as you have beautifully explained. Unless you ask, network can’t help, as it won’t even know that someone needs help. Why do you think such a thing happens and how the network can proactively help?

RamP, Networking and Relationship Building are so important to life and business that I am surprised why they are not taught in school. People think they know how to build relationships because they know how to communicate. That is far from the truth.

Relationship building is a life-long process. The best analogy I have is that of planting a tree. You have to nurture it for years before it bears fruits.

When you build strong relationships over time, both parties will know the concerns of each other and both parties want to help take care of each others’ concerns as much as possible. When you have that kind of relationship, asking is easy. But it takes time to build that kind of relationship. So people try to take the shortcut.

You are right – people can’t read other people’s mind so you might have to “ask” explicitly. However, the step before (the act of giving) has to be done before you go around “asking” to make this effective.

You talk about “cultivating the attitude of flexibility, while retaining the focus”. I can understand it at an intellectual level, but have difficulty articulating what it really means. Can you please elaborate?

Of course RamP – here below I have elaborated on the concept.

There are many ways to reach a goal. When you start you may think of one path to reach a goal and get emotionally attached to the path. In that path, there is a series of intermediate goals that you reach before you reach your ultimate goal. Every time you reach an intermediate goal, you feel that you have made progress. However, at some point in time, you might get stuck in the process of reaching the next intermediate goal (or milestone.) Here is where you need to watch out for the breakdown. Your intermediate goal becomes your obsession and you start focusing on it as if that is your ultimate goal rather than trying to find other ways of reaching your ultimate goal.

The “focus” has to be on the ultimate goal while you keep your “flexibility” to rearrange intermediate goals to reach your ultimate.

How do you think that lot of ideas you have offered in the last chapter “The Action” could be applied by people who are in middle management layers in large organizations?

The big thing that middle management people can do is to increase the capacity of the people that they are managing. If their team as a whole is increasing their capacity, their capacity to perform and produce results will go up.

Think about these questions:

1. What specific actions have you taken in the last week to increase the capacity of your team members?

2. What specific actions have you taken in the last quarter to increase the capacity of your team members?

3. What specific actions have you planned next quarter to increase the capacity of your team members?

Most often, we are busy “managing” rather than helping people grow. When people grow, their capacity to produce results goes up and they need less of your “management” to perform.

There are times where one has done everything seemingly right – this person is not in any trap, has a good network, disciplined, has plans and is action oriented. Still things just won’t turn up OK. In such unfortunate cases, its easy to slide in to negative spiral, making it very difficult to be Upbeat. How can such people retain hope and what is your message?

The short answer is – it’s not easy.

Yes, it is difficult to stay upbeat in these situations but it is also not easy to stay and continue suffering either. You really have to get sick and tired of getting sick and tired and start taking some action. The key decision to make here is whether you want to live in the past or you want to live towards the future.

You said it right in your question RamP – “, its easy to slide in to negative spiral, making it very difficult to be Upbeat.” The keyword here is “easy” as you can see. It is easy to feel bad or victimized and blame everyone and our surroundings and NOT do anything. Because of what has happened, one can also get a LOT of sympathy and attention – a form of license for inaction.

The result of continuing to suffer is clear – one would continue to suffer.

Life is too precious to squander this way. I am not saying that “staying Upbeat” will solve their problems – it is a great way to begin the first day of the rest of your life.

The best way to explain this is to watch this short clip from the movie “Rocky Balboa.” The message there is very simple –

“It is not how hard you hit. It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. How much you can take and keep moving forward...”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1tXhJniSEc



You always emphasize the need of having good teachers and mentors. Their roles are now even more crucial. Any suggestions for the mentors?

Mentors for me are a gift from God. They not only teach but they also hold me accountable for me to learn and apply those teachings.

I have written extensively about the reasons one should have mentors and I guess your question is more about – “OK, I have bought into that concept – now how do I go about finding good mentors?”

I wish I could say – “that’s easy.” Unfortunately it’s not. Good ones are usually taken and since like all of us, they have limited time, you have to compete and prove to them that you are “worth their time” to get their attention.

Please look around and I am sure you will notice people that can increase your “capacity to contribute” for the rest of your life. Once you find them, you have to go on a quest to recruit them as your mentor – meaning you have to sell yourself to show that you are a “positive possibility” in their lives. Yes, you can pay them money for their time, energy and insights but that alone will rarely attract them. They are lending their brand and they want to know that you are worth it.

Finally a rather selfish question. When is the book being launched in India? Are there plans of speaking gigs similar to the one when you launched Life Beyond Code?

First of all, it is not a selfish question – it is very kind of you to ask that. I am in discussions with several people to make that happen. But I really don’t have any dates finalized. Will keep you posted on this RamP.

Rajesh, thanks again for taking time to patiently answer my questions. Wish "Upbeat" a great success.


Here are some useful links:

1. www.rajeshsetty.com/about/
2. www.lifebeyondcode.com
3. www.twitter.com/UpbeatNow
4. www.thinksulting.com


Thank you very much,


RamP!
ramp.ramp@gmail.com

Reading list for Jul'09

I was able to catch up with last month's books primarily because of the retreat I took during the last week of Jun. Moving on with my Personal MBA studies, the focus for the next half of the year would be on finance and accounting. I've also decided to learn to "think" and therefore have lined up several books by Dr. Edward De Bono.

Finance Sense - Dr. Prasanna Chandra
Dr. Prasanna Chandra (aka PC) was a faculty at IIM-B and very early in my career as a manager, I got a chance to attend to his 3 day workshop on "Finance for non-finance professionals", which broadened my perspective on money matters and I started appreciating the need of strict financial goals even at a project level. I've decided to begin the finance and accounting part of the PMBA, with this book, which is simple and elegant.

Lateral Thinking
This is one of the most famous books of Dr. De Bono. In a nut shell this book is supposed to teach better, different and efficient ways of thinking. The book offers lot of techniques and exercises to drive home the point. Be warned, next time when you meet me, I might be thinking very differently!!






The Leader in Me: How Schools and Parents around the world are inspiring greatness, one child at a time
This is a book by Stephen Covey. Dr. Covey talks about how A B Combs Elementary School in North Carolina, is using 7-Habits concepts to teach young children principles-based leadership. Dr. Covey's works, especially the 7-Habits have had a tremondous influence on me. I have always wondered whether there is a way one can teach 7-Habits for can be taught to kids. I was pleasantly surprised when I saw this book in Bangalore Airport and bought it immediately, though the unfriendly Lufthansa people had told me that my hand-bag is over weight. Much of the book is on how the school has implemented the principles and there is one chapter on how it could be done at home too. Though Dr. Covey recommends 7-Habits of highly effective families as a better book for practicising 7-Habits at home, I reckon that this book is perhaps not for traditional Indian families.

How Full is Your Bucket: Positive Strategies for Work and Life
In this brief book, the authors, a grandfather-grandson team, explore how using positive psychology in everyday interactions can dramatically change our lives. Clifton (coauthor of Now, Discover Your Strengths) and Rath suggest that we all have a bucket within us that needs to be filled with positive experiences, such as recognition or praise. When we're negative toward others, we use a dipper to remove from their buckets and diminish their positive outlook. When we treat others in a positive manner, we fill not only their buckets but ours as well.